tv The Rachel Maddow Show MSNBC September 22, 2016 9:00pm-10:01pm PDT
of the helicopters, what looks like a meteor at the top of your picture. that is the sun gun, the searchlight coming down from what is likely a police helicopter. television helicopters don't tend to use lights like that, but they are always scanning the crowd. what can often happen over a city like this. and now that we have started the top of a new hour, the curfew is now officially in effect in the city of charlotte. though tell that to the hundreds, if not thousands, of people who are still out peacefully walking on the streets. a lot of media among them, a lot of different kinds of people who are out there tonight because of the protest movement. we've seen a night of violence last night but not so this evening. it was the death of keith lamont scott, age 43, that started all of this. and the corrosive effect of life
in charlotte is the din of helicopters overhead, the sight of police in riot gear. we were heartened in the last hour to see more bike cops out and visible on the streets because that is a less aggressive stance. we have tammy leitner out walking with the crowd. we have tre'maine lee out walking with the crowd, and correspondent kevin tibbles, all three of them in different corners of this event. kevin, can you still hear us? >> reporter: yeah, brian, i am. >> how has your situation changed at all? you seem to just be keeping pace with the group you're walking with. >> reporter: well, you know, as i mentioned earlier, but it was just so darn loud, brian, because the closer it's getting to 12:00, the louder this crowd is getting. i think the more determined people. we spoke to a young woman earlier who said she was going to be going home, but this
particular group seems to be determined to stay. and with that in mind, you know, a lot of people seem to be handing out water bottles, as was mentioned earlier, perhaps getting ready for some sort of confrontation, one i don't think anyone here really wants. are you folks going to be going home at 12:00? it is almost 12:00. >> no, we're staying for the cause. >> reporter: you're staying for the cause. >> yes. >> reporter: define for me what the cause would be this evening. the young man last night, the number of people who have been shot over the last couple years or a lifetime? >> all of that. a lifetime. people who are losing their lives. it's forever, for generations. >> reporter: and that is worth some kind of an arrest for you, some kind of -- >> i'm a black mother with a black son. it's worth my life. >> when does it stop? when are we supposed to stop?
we can't stop until we get change. >> reporter: with that said, and it was said very eloquently -- thank you very much. with that said, it's obvious many of these people are determined to stay out here on the streets tonight in spite of the curfew and in spite of what the mayor has asked people to do here. brian, back to you. >> kevin tibbles, thanks. we're the ones that are supposed to be good with words, but it's happened more than once in the past 24 hours. we can't say it better than the people we have spoken to in the streets. jim cavanaugh is with us again tonight, retired agent special in charge of tobacco and firearms. jim, i assume you're going to join me in saluting the restraint of law enforcement tonight? we had a bit of a tizzy getting people off i-277 and back up off the hill. the state troopers wanted to reopen traffic, but this is -- basically it looks like it could be a walk for charity at night
in a beautiful city area. >> really, the city leaders ought to be out and getting more protesters. they're getting flowers out and chanting peace slogans. yeah, they had a hard line at the highway and they kept that. they used a little bit of pressure to push the crowd back from that, and they pushed them a little farther than i thought they would, but they wanted that highway probably for emergency vehicles, brian, as you described it as the beltway. but the big mistake here would be any hard press on this curfew. that would be a huge mistake. i'm sure the commanders in the command post are examining this right now. but if you press this real hard, for what end? you had a complete peaceful night. you just need to let that go, let the people fade away, let them get fatigued from walking. and, you know, as the panel talked, it made so many great points, but the mayor is missing it, i think, and the chief. they have people advising them, you know, the wisdom of reverend barber, you need to listen to
people that are giving you the answers. and as an old negotiator, i can tell you a lot of times the answers are right in front of you, you're just not hearing them. the answer to this is a simple one, really. i think it's a simple one to say we're going to release the tape, we're going to ask for the department of justice to investigate this along with the state bureau of investigation, and we're going to lift the curfew -- this is tomorrow morning, i'm saying -- lift the curfew because we've had a peaceful night. i think those things would go a long way, and that's exactly what reverend barber was saying that people wanted. if that tape had shown someone shooting at a police officer and there was demonstrations, it would have been released to show the person was shooting at the police officer. you can't just release a tape when it's good, you have to do like tulsa did, too, and release it when it's bad. good, bad and ambiguous, you got to release the tape.
i think really they need to rethink that position. it's a hard position that's not going to be a good position. they have a peaceful night. they need to build on that peaceful night and rethink their strategy. if i was advising the mayor, and i have a lot of respect for the mayor and the chief there. if i was advising them, that's what i would say. take a step back, think about this position. that tape is going to be public sometime if the family doesn't object. ask for federal help. lift the curfew because you had a peaceful night. i think you can get the city back to where it's supposed to be. this is a very, very peaceful march in charlotte, and pressing this curfew would be an extreme mistake. it would be scenes from the edmond pettis bridge, the scene from alabama for many years. law enforcement would like to take that day back and say we're not going to pummel protesters trying to march to montgomery to
vote. are you going to start giving out flowers? i don't think they will. the commanders see that. we just need to let this kind of fizzle away. >> jim, thank you. there's your law enforcement veteran joining the view that people ought to see this tape. >> you have a law enforcement veteran that screamed and yelled and made a loud point about it. he could have made a calm statement that we all need to have peace. i was at lurcnch today of my youngest of four children. i have three girls and one boy. all four of my children happen to be biracial. my wife cried about her fear for her brother and her father. she's an actress and she's living a nice life, but she's worried because her brother is going to come and see her in l.a., and she's worried about
him just being an african-american male in this country today. people don't stop for a second and think, what right does she have to think that? how about that mother, what right does she have to think that? if we're allowed to stop for a second and listen to their words, i think we'll realize maybe we all ought to do a little thinking. >> that's why there is a bit of dignity in tonight's protest. this is a very, very powerful message just walking through the streets of charlotte. yes, knowing what happened last night, yes, knowing the stakes. but this is very powerful in its own way. >> i agree, and that mother, i mean, she said it was worth her life. that depth of feeling and the way people experience today's america, in the end this could prove instructive. we're being optimistic now, but it could.
people might understand a bit more. >> yes. >> just because we were uncomfortable having eugene robinson be the sole pulitzer prize winner from the "washington post," part of our coverage, we've asked wesley lau lowry to join us tonight. covers race and politics and data on police shootings. wes, we talked to you last night. obviously a palpable, visual difference tonight. what's been your experience? >> certainly. we've been out -- i've been out for most of the night, and what we've seen is as this midnight curfew has now come and gone, there are still hundreds of people walking, at times chanting, at times silent through the streets of downtown where they call it uptown charlotte. this has been remarkably peaceful. i have not witnessed any acts of violence whatsoever whether it be against property or
otherwise. there was certainly some moments of tension, particularly when at one point, i want to say around 1 10:00 or 10:30, demonstrators blocked hothe highway for a whi, but other than that, it's been a pretty peaceful demonstration in charlotte tonight. >> this calls for a judgment on your part, but do you concur with our panelists here saying the mayor is fighting inevitability here. they can't view it and call it ambiguous in 2016? >> i wrote a piece this morning in some of our database, we're seeing many more police shootings that are captured on body camera or dash camera or bystander cameras.
more often than not, they don't release the video to the public. one day this investigation will close. one day that video does become a public record. but i'm really fascinated to see what the city officials here do. we've seen hundreds of demonstrators standing on the doorstep of the police department earlier tonight chanting, give us the tapes, we want to see the tapes. i think it's going to be increasingly difficult, especially with the family calling for their release, to justify with a straight face why they should not see the video evidence in the shooting. >> wesley, especially because the eyewitness reports from the family attorney who has seen the video includes the bit about mr. scott walking backwards at the time he was struck. >> yes. and i've spoken as well with someone -- not one of the attorneys, someone else who has seen the video and who said that same thing. in the moments that he is
killed, you cannot necessarily see his hands. it's unclear what he might have been holding, and obviously that is a point of disagreement in the witness accounts, but this idea that perhaps he was -- had slowly gotten out of the car, seemed to have been physically complying and maybe had been taking steps backwards, certainly when described that way by the attorneys, raising additional questions and raises doubts about the police, their version of the story, and the impression given by the police chief and others who have said essentially, hey, don't worry about it. we've seen the video and it backs up the cop. that's probably not good enough for a lot of the people out here. >> and wesley, final question about the national guard. people will quarrel about their stance, their visibility. it is not their fault that they arrived in town in humvees, in vehicles that are quite literally shrink-wrapped and brought off the battlefield. that's the vehicles they're given to use domestically. it's not their fault that they
are in full kit uniform. we were so happy this evening to see the video we're just airing again of people of charlotte coming up to them, giving them hugs, shaking their hand, thanking them. what does their role seem to be versus local cops? >> so this is very similar to deployment of the national guard. certainly in ferguson, missouri several times there was a point there. the national guard are standing guard in front of property, right? they're standing in front of the ritz-carlton and the omni we saw yesterday, standing in front of the arena district. essentially acting as deterrents from anyone who might see a big glass window and think, let me go punch that or throw a brick through it. the national guard in many ways are standing as bouncers or bodyguards around the property of charlotte proper while the local police officers are the ones actually engaging the
demonstrators either, you know, when they try to put a roadblock, we don't want them to walk this way, so let's block the road and head them off the other way. or again, when they entered the interstate briefly, it was local police officers who encountered them and then used some force there to remove them. so that's kind of the balance there. the national guard again kind of serving as a security force for property while the local police are the ones tactically dealing with people and crowds. >> wesley lowry of the "washington post." wesley, as you spoke, we showed some of that video. that's as rough as it got tonight in our field of view. there were tear gas fired. they were pushing the crowd off the embankment to interstate 277 which circles around downtown charlotte. this curfew was to have taken effect about 15 minutes ago.
wesl wesley, thank you so much for your live reporting for us and for the "washington post." back to our panel in this room, and starting with montel williams. we can't say this enough. it's been a peaceful night in charlotte, north carolina. >> peaceful night, and what you just discussed about the way the police were deployed, you do have to give whoever is literally the commander of this entire operation. they use the national guard the correct way. i think the state police have been positioned to handle an area between the individuals on the ground. they're using local police to do that. it's all been done in an effort to allow peaceful demonstration, allowing people to demonstrate without any push-back. if you noticed, a couple people yelling at the police officers, we saw that tape. the police officers didn't grunt or move or posture, they just stood there. the ones that took the hug accepted the hug. then you had people standing in front of police officers,
basically protecting the police from the protesters. this is textbook that people should take notice of and say, this is the way it should have happened last night. >> steve, you made the point of nobody's fault here. the backdrop is fraught throughout north carolina. this is just one of the subplots happening. >> no doubt. this will be one of the subjects of the presidential debate monday night. this will be at the heart of a really tough election of an incumbent governor who has been involved in all the social issues we've talked about that have reverberated back on the economy of north carolina so badly. we look at this decision tonight. you have the curious decision by the mayor to announce a curfew at 9:00 p.m. to go on television pretty quickly with you after and announce the intention to enforce the curfew at midnight. in these hours ahead now where
you have a crowd that's been peaceful that clearly will get tired, will go home eventually, will law enforcement press? will the politicians give the order to clear the streets and escalate the situation into something that hasn't been tonight, and hopefully we won't see that. >> eugene, for folks cruising around the web tonight, i note your column is called "in america: gun rights are for whites only." what do you mean by that headline? >> i'm questioning this incident and also the feeling of fernando castile in minnesota back in july. casti castile, with that awful, awful video we saw by his girlfriend diamond reynolds who narrated the video and his life was literally bleeding out from him on the seat next to her and he had been shot. he legally carried a gun. he had a legal permit to carry a
gun. he was pulled over for a traffic stop and tried to tell the officer, i have a legal permit, i carry a gun. and as he reached for his wal t wallet, the way miss reynolds tells the story, the officer seemed to think he was -- made a sudden movement or was reaching for the gun or whatever and so shot him. and, again, it was perfectly legal for him to have that gun. all the paperwork was fine. he had every right to be armed. i personally think we ought to have stricter gun control laws in this country so all kinds of people aren't walking around toting guns all the time. i think that makes the situation more dangerous. but we have the laws we have, and they should be applied equally. and i just think that there is an instinct, there is an assumption that if it's a black man with a gun, there is some
kind of imminent danger that there wouldn't be with a white man with a gun who is just exercising a second amendment right. obviously, that's not the case with all police officers would have that reaction, but i think we saw it in july in that shooting, and potentially we may have seen it in this shooting as well. >> eugene robinson, steve schmidt, montel williams. it's come time to excuse our panel for the evening. some of these men have to be up, shou showered and looking handsome and sharp by 6:00 a.m. but i want to emphasize this. without these men and people like them we've been able to talk to over the last 24 hours, speaking with lights and a box, these would just be live pictures from north carolina. it's helped us so greatly to have sharp coverage and analysis.
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it was earlier tonight, kind of the heart of the main group, one of several groups of peaceful protesters in charlotte, north carolina tonight. great contrast to last night where these city streets were filled with violence, sometimes smoke and tear gas and worse at times. but tonight it is a humid, kind of spitting rain, sticky, late
september night in charlotte. that is tammy leitner trying to walk forward and backward for us, walking with one of the groups of protesters. tammy, what can you tell us from the group you're with? >> reporter: brian, we've been walking with this group since 8:00 and it's grown. it's at least 500, maybe a thousand people. people are still very, very calm, peaceful. that midnight curfew has come and passed. i want to talk to one of the people walking here. this is avery, and i've been chatting with avery as we were walking a little bit. tell me a little bit about why you're out here tonight, avery. >> just trying to spread the peace. i mean, that's the bottom line. you can see everybody out here. you know, it's past curfew night, we're still out here protesting, nothing is going wrong. >> reporter: and avery, let me ask you this. they have made it very clear there is a 12:00 curfew and they will arrest people.
are you worried about that? >> honestly? with all these people still out here, i'm not. i'm not. >> reporter: and you just -- it's very peaceful out here. not a lot of violence, not a lot of -- were you out here last night? did you see what was going on here then? >> i wasn't out here last night but i did drive around the city as everything was going on. last night was very unacceptable. it was supposed to be a simple, peaceful protest. it got out of hand and that's not what this city is about. >> reporter: thank you very much for talking to us, avery. i'll let you go and catch up with your group. i know your group is up there. brian, we've spoken with a lot of people and they all have said the same thing. they want to keep this peaceful tonight. wea weaver se we've seen a few people try to incite the crowd and people walk up to them and say, that's not what we're here about tonight. >> we've seen peaceful aspects of this crowd all night long. we've seen folks get up on
garbage cans and top steps, but mostly their message has been, let's do this peacefully, even when the crowd kind of came up and massed behind them on the steps of the jail, on the steps of city hall. at one point we saw inmates inside lock-up flicking their lights and waving their support of the protesters who were yelling their support up to the jail windows. it's been that kind of evening. and anyone who compares it at all to last night is in error. last night, as was pointed out, there were, to use an old-fashioned word, there were a lot of agitators, and a lot of people in charlotte were angry about that. they said, that isn't who we are, even though the need, the cause is very vital there in charlotte, as they see it, given the death of keith lamont scott, age 43. we're going to fit in a break.
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was supposed to be a curfew in charlotte tonight. these are pictures of the largest crowds earlier, and it's very important to keep repeating tonight has been a peaceful prote protest. the most tense times we saw were down on i-277 where state troopers had to open the interstate, and there was some pushing and shoving, and something was fired believed to be tear gas. projectiles were fired, believed to be rubber bullets as our own tre'maine lee detailed on live coverage. we want to let our viewers in on what our plans are here. standing in to talk to us in studio is reverend thompson. standing by on the phone is justin bamberg, one of the attorneys for the scott family, but we're going to talk to him after we play for you a portion of our conversation on live
television tonight with mayor jennifer roberts of charlotte. we were talking about the crux of this protest following the death of mr. scott, the video from dash cam, body cam, from police sources that shows whatever it shows. here's a portion of that conversation. mayor roberts, as you know, the chant on and off tonight for the third straight night has been about releasing the video of the police shooting of keith lamont scott. a two-part question for you. run through for our viewers the justification for holding it, for not releasing it, and second, since we can't see it and you have, can you paint for us a picture of the approximate framing, what we can see, what we can't and what appears to happen in that video? >> well, i have seen the video, and i agree with the assessment both by our chief as well as the
family. the family has seen the video also. and it is ambiguous. there is not a clear picture. the body camera, of course, is moving, and the view is obscured at certain points. the dash camera is only a partial view. and i think that is a challenge. it is ambiguous. and this is one reason why we want to have time for the investigation to continue to gather all the pieces of the puzzle. we want to make sure that all the other evidence that is part of the incident is put together in a complete picture so that folks will understand exactly what happened the day of that incident. >> the question of the hour becomes, of course, is it a book or a gun? a huge difference, and those are the two leading theories. >> it's hard to see what the
gentleman is holding in his hand. it's a small item, and the gun in question is a small gun. but again, it is not a clear video. and i think that ambiguity is something that will be a challenge and why i want to have the investigation completed before anything else happens with that. >> and, of course, absent the video being released, people are -- the only evidence we have is eyewitness accounts like yours, one of them earlier today from, i believe, the family lawyer is that he is walking backwards at the time that he was struck and killed. can you confirm that part of the video? >> he is walking, and again, there are ambiguities in that.
we are going to work to let the investigation run its course. bureau of investigation is cl t collecting eyewitness accounts at the scene and other evidence in order to make that a complete picture. >> jennifer roberts, the charlotte mayor talking to us live on television about an hour ago. we are very happy to have standing by on the telephone with us justin bamberg, the scott family attorney. counselor, how would you disagree with her assessment of the video chiefly? do you agree with this word "big arri -- ambiguous? >> i think that's a good word. definitively you get nothing positive about what is in mr. scott's hands. i watched dash cam footage as well as body cam footage, and i
watched it numerous times. there are a couple things that are very clear to me. mr. scott does get out of the vehicle. you don't see him make any aggressive moves. you don't see him appear to be arguing with law enforcement or acting in an aggressive manner. you do see what appears to be some type of object in his hand, but it is impossible to make out on either of those videos exactly what that may be, and it is our position based on what we saw, it appears as though he was backstepping at the time that he was shot and killed. >> but you feel, however ambiguous, the bottom line is, and it's the family's wish, that this video be released so that people can see whatever there is. >> yes, absolutely. i can say that having been with the family today when we watched the video, there is a degree of appreciation for the family
having had the opportunity to be the first to see it before it becomes public. at this point, the family has requested, and we support them 100%, that the video do be released to the public. you see what's going on here, there are so many different stories being told. we have law enforcement's account, you all have heard from one of his daughters in the original video that he had a book. you've heard witnesses say he didn't have anything. there are so many different stories being told. i think the best thing and the best thing for the public is to, at this point, let's put these videos out. the mayor has seen it, the chief has seen it, we have seen it. let the public see it. let them see with their own eyes and draw their own conclusions as to what they believe the video shows. >> do you think the mayor is running out of time and we're looking at something whose release is inevitable, this
video? >> i think the release will be inevitable. i think people want to see it. i think that with the family essentially not only just giving the green light but formally requesting that the video be released, it's only a matter of time. and if they don't release it, i think they're going to have to provide sufficient justification as to why because they can't fall back on, oh, well, the family doesn't want it out. >> finally, counselor, we're mindful of the fact that you witnessed something extraordinary and extraordinarily sad today. you were with family members, loved ones, as they looked at the only videotape evidence that exists of the death of keith lamont scott. how are they doing and what a searing experience that must have been on top of the initial tragedy. >> yeah, it is absolutely painful to watch and see the emotion on them.
i can tell you that for every family member in the room, with the exception of his wife, this was the first time that they actually saw him get killed on camera. his wife was actually there and saw the shooting and witnessed her husband being killed. so it wasn't any easier to see it this time. they're being strong, they're sticking together. you know, they have the support of a lot of people. and at the end of the day, all they want are the facts to come out. they want to know why it happened and how it happened. you know, we don't create the facts in these situations. the facts are what they are. we just play the cards that we're dealt. but if you're not dealt all the cards, you can't even get into the game. so that's kind of what they're expecting. i think that they are pleased with how today went, and quite frankly, the family along with their attorneys are pleased with
how the protesting is going tonight, because it is, from what i've seen, a very drastic difference between what we saw last night. >> justin bamberg, attorney for the scott family. counselor, thank you very much for phoning in to us. we appreciate the chance to ask you a few questions. >> thank you so very much, sir. you all have a great night. >> thank you. you, too. tre'maine lee, i see, is walking on our monitor with yet another group of protesters. tre'maine, how are we doing out there? >> reporter: so far, so good. we are past the curfew. apparently police have said as long as things remain peaceful, they won't enforce it. i have a protester here. it's past midnight. are you concerned about the police cracking down or what are your plans tonight? >> i'm not concerned about nothing. we're just going to protest all night. >> it's 12:40. what are you out here for? >> i'm out here supporting the movement, man. >> reporter: why does this matter? >> all lives matter, man.
it's not just the black folks dying, it's the cops, too. black folks are dying, cops are dying, everybody is dying. we have to stop it, man. >> reporter: after last night, it was a dramatic night. there was a confrontation with police. it's different tonight. how do you feel being out here tonight? >> i feel more safe tonight. >> reporter: you were out here last night? >> i was out here a little bit. >> reporter: but you feel safe. thanks very much. appreciate it. it has been a peaceful night. still hundreds of people out here and we're well past the curfew. still, the police so far have maintained the peace. again, as you see, hundreds of people still out here, no justice, no peace. we've heard it time and time again. again, we're 40 minutes past the curfew, but people are still -- as you heard, that's the sentiment right here. >> tre'maine lee, thank you. tre'maine walking with a group
of protesters. we're going to take a break. when we come back, a veteran of the movement, the reverend mark thompson standing by to talk to us in our studios in new york. our coverage of the unfolding of the shooting in charlotte continues after this. to get her, the neighborhood is really changing. i'm always hopping on the train, running all over portland. i have to go wherever the work is. trains with innovative siemens technology help keep cities moving, so neighborhoods and businesses can prosper. i can book 3 or 4 gigs on a good weekend. i'm booked solid for weeks. it takes ingenuity to make it in the big city. sorry, captain obvious. i'm bodon't be.d for weeks. i've got the hotels.com app, which makes it simple to book a room for $500. or $25, but it won't be here. you can stay with me. thanks. i've already lost enough today.
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we are back. this is the lobby of the ritz-carlton, maybe the nicest hotel in charlotte, north carolina, a city with a ton of hotel rooms. they do a ton of business travel, hosting people from around the world. ritz-carlton tonight is being protected by members of the north carolina national guard. that's really part of their role, why they were called out as citizen soldiers to give police a little spell so they don't have to protect property, they can worry about lives. this is another prong of the protest movement. this is live. we've seen folks take a break, we've seen folks take five
minutes. sometimes they have been miming the kind of simulated death protest where they get on the ground where they were standing. other times they're just taking a break. it's a hot, late september night in charlotte after all. as i said before the break, we're joined by a man who has been in the movement longer than many of the people you see there in the picture have been alive. i don't think he'll mind me saying that. >> i guess not. i guess i'll have to accept that at this point. >> after a certain time, it becomes inevitable. the reverend mark thompson is with us who has worked inside and outside the naacp for over 25 years and is the host of "make it plain" on sirius xm. i was watching you tonight with lawrence o'donnell. let's begin with local politics, because you were especially acute on this topic. it's been proffered that the mayor could have led a march,
led a vigil and been a more visible presence in that community tonight. it's also been proffered that the time to declare a curfew for midnight is not that night at 9:00 p.m. they had all day. >> thank you very much for having me. they should have made that announcement earlier, if at all. from the experience in ferguson, brian, we know that's not always the best decision. sometimes that exacerbates the problem, it creates more tension. but i will commend them tonight. i think some of the authorities in their wisdom realize it was not in anyone's best interest to be confrontational. we see this curfew is in effect and people are still out there, and i think we're witnessing, the whole country is witnessing, that the majority of these protesters all along have been peaceful and are going to remain peaceful. so i think that's a good thing. i will also say this also, i think, we're witnessing one of the true great effects of the
media. because we're still on, we're still covering this. that also keeps everything transparent. if these cameras go off, i don't know what might happen. i commend everybody for staying on top of this. i think that the mayor and others, especially as she admits now, the film, the video is ambiguous, could have gone out there tonight and participated, probably should. it's not too late for that. if we look at the timeline now, we can be back in the same place again when this video comes out. last night was an immediate reaction, anger. tonight some of that subsided. you have peaceful protesters in the majority coming out and taking over. when that video comes out, that anger is going to be renewed. those steps of grief start all over again. so the longer they withhold that vid video, the greater risk that something else could explode. now, again, i don't think that
it will get too out of hand and i don't see another ferguson here because at this moment the authorities are behaving in an appropriate manner. but i don't think they should delay that video much longer. >> to your first point, it takes two. and both sides deserve congratulations tonight. the police, national guard for their stance and the protest and protest leaders. a lot of members of the clergy out there very visible on the streets tonight. we saw at several different points of stress, people saying, no, let's keep this peaceful, a self-policing crowd. look at that, nobody is getting hurt there. they're not hurting anybody, they're just putting a hand in the air, a fist in the air, most of them from a stationary position. you found it notable, as did we, when jim cavanaugh tonight, our great veteran of the bureau of alcohol, tobacco and firearms, a man who is been in law enforcement all his life, said what he did, and i'll allow you
to quote and paraphrase him, about releasing this video. >> well, to paraphrase, he said that if, in fact, this would have been negative for the police -- that is the reason, that is often the reason, too, to withhold the video. if it was something positive in the police' favor, maybe they wouldn't release it. but the withholding of that video raises that question, as to whether or not there is something or some evidence that would implicate the police. and i think even the police chief kind of changed his position. yesterday he was a little bit more emphatic. gun, gun, gun. today it's ambiguous. so whatever the case may be, as your guests earlier said, the great panel you had, steve schmidt articulated it the best, this is an open carry state. what could have been wrong with that? the bottom line is there is no way on earth that keith lamont scott should have gone to pick up his child at the bus stop. which a lot of north carolinans
do. the bus doesn't always drop kids off at home, you have to go meet them at the bus stop. there is no way that should have resulted in his death, brian. there is no way. he was not going there to commit a crime, he was there to pick up his child. >> he wasn't a person of interest. they were on another case. >> no. absolutely not. we should also note here, we still have a long way to go in this country. this is the same city that renominated the first african-american president just four years ago. and we're still dealing with a situation like this, police killings of african-americans. something is still not right in america and we've got a long way to go. >> i was saying last night, i don't know what it means, but the last time i saw national guard and a military and police stance in these streets was when it was shut down as a national security event during the democratic convention. >> you're absolutely right. a relative called me tonight and
said she felt as if she was reliving the '50s. we thought we were beyond this, but clearly we're not. all i have is my faith in god, but we as african-american men, and many times women know, that tomorrow is not promised under these circumstances, when police are killing us. the very same professor i spoke to tonight at unc charlotte, jennifer daniels. her daughter said to her yesterday, mommy, be safe. we're supposed to be protecting our children, brian. our children are supposed to be concerned -- aren't supposed to be concerned for their parents' safety. >> it's supposed to be a right of citizenship. >> it is. i'm glad things are peaceful tonight. i hope they remain this way. i think they need to release this video as quickly as possible. but again, as i was saying earlier, this is going to be a struggle at a local level. dr. king didn't start out
leading the national movement. it started as a local movement in montgomery and it became a national movement. each of these locales people are going to have to decide to remain vigilant and agitate for reform and change. civilian oversight of police where it's necessary. and some of these city councilmembers and mayors may have to be voted out of office if they don't agree. that's where it needs to go. >> reverend mark thompson, what a pleasure. thank you for coming to our table here tonight. > let's check back in. someone we saw on the streets, correspondent kevin tibbles. kevin, how are you getting along? poor kevin, every time it's loud. >> reporter: probably about 500 people here, brian. about 500, you would say? i'm speaking to chewy here, and why are you still walking? >> i'm still walking because we're showing that charlotte is not like any other city. we're showing people that what
happened last night doesn't represent charlotte. what you're seeing right now is the real charlotte culture. you're seeing a real representation of charlotte. >> reporter: i was with a group of pastors earlier this evening that said what happened here last night was shameful for this community, for the african-american community in this city. >> definitely. >> reporter: and they said there are a lot of young men in this community who are aimless and do not have anywhere to go. >> definitely. you see that not just in this community, you see that everywhere in america. but it's what we do to change it. and what you see tonight, you see cameraderie. whether it's black people, whether it's white people, hispanics, asians. we're all descents. we're all together and we're representing one thing. >> reporter: tonight has been peaceful, it has been going on for several hours. we have not seen what happened last night. is this what you want the rest of america to see? >> this is what i want america to know. i want america to know that millennials are -- their
possibilities are endless. >> reporter: are they? >> we can get to the next level, it's just a matter of us working together. we're walking in downtown charlotte and nobody is bothering you. >> reporter: are you capable of making change? >> i'm capable for myself. i can only speak for one person. but it starts with one person. it starts with self. it starts with self, not just the world. it starts with one person. and then it transpires to another. it's a domino effect. in the same way i talk to you is the same way i talk to my brothers behind me and around us. >> reporter: let's all hope that by the time we're finished walking tonight that it would have remained peaceful. >> it's going to stay peaceful. >> tonight it will. >> i could listen to him all night. thank him for us, kevin. you've chosen to walk with some great people tonight who are fantastic on this issue. thank you.
>> reporter: brian, i can't hear you, i can't talk to you. >> thank you for thanking us. we just believe in telling the story of tonight's live coverage. it's very important that people realize that's just the scene you saw. as he put it best, you're walking down the streets of charlotte and nobody is bothering you. it's kind of a slow motion protest walk getting back a lot closer to the roots of the movement. but this is the movement modernized because the cause, if you ask these young protesters, of course, is urgent and it has changed. the name keith lamont scott is present in everyone's mind. nbc prime time coverage continues. we'll keep an eye on this all evening long. you don't let anything keep you sidelined.
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